Shortening of End Credits on ITV

[Martin2013]

I know we've had a similar thread about this before which has now been archived.

For a long time I've been keen to establish whenabouts exactly ITV started cutting the closing credits as have others on here and I know that a few years ago there was talk that there was an 'interim' version of the cut titles in use.

I've just acquired a couple of episodes on tape recorded from Carlton. These are Episode 1260 which was shown on 27th December 1993, the ending of Episode 1261 from 28th December 1993 and Episode 1268 which was shown on 6th January 1994.  

Episodes 1260 and 1261 have the credits in full whilst Episode 1268 has the familiar shortened 10 second version.

This suggests that in the Carlton region at least, ITV adopted the cut credits from the start of January 1994 and I'd hazard a guess that Episode 1265 (shown on 3rd January 1994) was the first one to have them cut.

I hope this information is helpful. However, if anyone happens to know if it varied in other regions then I'd be interested in finding out more.

[nenehcherry2]

32 year mystery (for me too!!!) solved!!!

You're a legend!

It's funny how early childhood memories work. I have always remembered watching Bobby and Greg screaming at each other in the Beach House (i.e. episode 1268 and when I watched the repeat of this back in 2014, it was EXACTLY as I had remembered the scene from being 6-years-old). And watching it on the TV in a room in my house where I would watch afternoon showings (not evening showings). Years later, my 1993 - 1994 school report confirmed that I had been off sick on that day. Funny thing is, I had also had an inkling (call it a fragmented memory) that that episode ended with cut credits. Turns out I was right, so a genuine memory!

It was me who posted to BTTB some old press articles from the period talking about the ITV Network Centre's new credit length rules. Combined with your audit above, I think we can safely assume (with 95% certainty) that ITV's credit cut went live from the very start of 1994, most likely across the entire network. 

Huge kudos, it's very appreciated, SB!

[Martin2013]

No problem.  Glad I was able to share this information.

Was just pleased that I was able to find these episodes and get this insight into what happened.  

I remember you very kindly posting those articles a few years ago about the credit guidelines which I was always greatful for.

I also remember you (I think) suggesting that the first time you saw the cut credits was on an episode that ended with a Luke freeze frame which 1268 did.  The cliffhanger being Luke worrying about Bill.  

 

Edited June 6 by Martin2013

[Martin2013]

For anyone interested, the episode from 31st December 1993 has cropped up on another tape I have just acquired (well the last 8 minutes or so have anyway),and this episode also ended with full credits.  This implies that Carlton at least continued showing them in full right until the end of 1993.

[James Martin]

I think you might be right.

Our school didn't go back for another week so I'd have definitely been off on the 3rd, which was a Monday and I absolutely remember seeing the cut credits for the first time on a lunchtime showing, so it would have to have been a school holiday or I'd been off sick.

The credits thing would HAVE to have been across the network because of the workflow in place at the time.  Thames, later Carlton, played the lunchtime showing out from London to all regions.  By 1994, this was networked at 1:25pm.  The evening showing, however, was until March 1999 up to each region with a mix of 5:10pm, 6pm & 6:30pm used. 

Consequently each region was required to tape the feed from London locally, and then play said tape back out that evening.  Even if you lived between two regions that had the evening showing at the same time, they could be as much as 2-3 minutes out of sync.

This was obviously cheaper than distributing 15 copies of a tape across the country.

So in my view there's no way credit cutting was a regional thing to begin with, because at lunchtime you were watching a tape played out from Carlton in London, regardless of where you were based, and in the evening you were watching a recording of that line feed.

[Martin2013]

I've heard this before about the different regions taping the Carlton feed and then playing it back for the repeat.

I have heard suggestions that Carlton may have initially retained the full length credits for their evening repeat.  Presumably they were the only region to play the evening repeat out 'live' which would have meant that in theory it would have been possible for them to do this?

Does anyone know how LWT handled the evening showing on a Friday?     Did they tape the lunchtime feed from Thames/Carlton or did they broadcast it themselves?  I remember reading on an old Google Newsgroup about an occasion in early 1999 where LWT once randomly showed the credits in full at the end of an episode but it only happened on that day's evening edition and not on the lunchtime one from Carlton 

 

[James Martin]

Depends on when LWT showed it, as they used both 5:10 and 6 over time. The switchover, which still legally exists, is 5:15.

Before 1993, for 5:10 the show started during Thames time, so the tape was played from Thames.  However, this was line fed to LWT, so that the show would run across the switch at 5:15.  Once BT had switched the transmitters over, you were still seeing the same tape, just now travelling via LWT.  You might have seen a small switching splat at 5:15.

Obviously the ident into H&A would have been Thames' signoff for the week.

For 6pm showings, LWT would have recorded from Thames at lunchtime like every other region.

However after 1993, playout for Carlton, LWT and GMTV all came from the South Bank.  All that changed insofar as the viewer was concerned was that the on-screen presentation and announcers were different after 5:15; it all came from the same place. So LWT wouldn't have needed to record their own copy of the evening showing, as they'd just use the one Carlton played out, to the network, at lunchtime.

[Martin2013]

Once again, thanks for taking the time to explain what happened.