H&Alover Posted July 19, 2018 Report Posted July 19, 2018 Relieved Maggie managed to talk Ben round, it's got to be hard for relatives to see it from the person who is going through it point of view. How many times has there been the 'we'll keep it from the girls' conversation? Never lasts for long, though I guess Coco is still out of the loop as we haven't seen her this week. Ben, as Maggie has said before, can't keep a secret even without not saying anything. Good idea of Ziggy & Ben to let Maggie have her wish, but that after the wedding they may be able to persuade her to change her mind, this break, if that is all it is, will maybe give her body a chance to rest and that is without the emotional and mental stress. Ziggy was being very optimistic with wanting Maggie to be there for her children and her children's children. On the subject of Dean putting the money back - was that in the same envelope (?) - in Ziggy's bag behind the bar, where was the staff or for that matter customers - he was very lucky no-one was about, same as when Willow nicked it in the first place. If Willow was a really bad person she wouldn't be so bothered about what she does, she'd just shrug it off, she's not just doing it for herself, one reason is to pay for her dad's care home. Thankfully I've never been addicted like Willow is but it gets a hold of you, as Brody could testify and you do do things you would never normally do. Dean showed how much he loves her by taking out that loan, obviously not from good people, they were sure hot off the mark, he'd only just borrowed the money and they are already 'reminding' him the clock is ticking. That look Dean gave Willow after she walked off after nicking Ziggy's money did make me think he knew she was in deeper than she'd been making out. Murray does seem to be the go to cop for suspended colleagues to turn to. First Kat, now Colby. Let's face it Red, Colby isn't be the first cop to 'use' police resources while on suspension, Jack, Angelo, Charlie & Kat and won't the last. I'm glad Justin apologised to him after having yet another go at him, acknowledging he couldn't do anything now he was for all intents and purposes out of the police. He did have a point though he & Colby managed to track Hazel down and the police still can't find her. Well we know where she is - in that motel! Justin did manage to talk him out of storming down the cop shop and telling them what he knew about the mobile and had back up from Robbo. It is getting tiresome Ebony just happening to be there whenever people are having 'private' conversations and hearing enough to put two and two together to be able to ask 'innocent' questions of Colby and Robbo, though he's not fooled. I know she was behind the leak to the press and the email to McCarthy, but I thought it was an ordinary member of the public who called them about Colby & Dean's 'fight', I don't remember seeing her there. Of course as most people do in the bay Willow & Dean wandered off without locking the caravan door meaning Ebony who just happened, did I mention I'm finding that tiresome, to be watching and hide the phone. Nearly fell off my chair when Dean said the next morning "I'll lock up". I was hoping neither Willow or Dean would handle that phone before Colby & Justin turned up. Once Colby had calmed down he did agree it couldn't have been them. Ebony had a second phone so why wouldn't Willow? Would have been pretty obvious even to the Yabby Creek cops Dean hadn't taken the photo of him & Colby, though I guess their thinking would be it was Willow. Now it's in the hands of Robbo and Colby is out of the way which means he can't 'say' anything and alert Ebony. Colby did kind of get it wrong about the people behind it being relatives of Boyd as they are more direct. He already suspected her and it's really put her on the edge when he called round to her room, why would that be a secret anyway? He's not been an undercover cop for nothing, pure cool the way gathered himself and knocked on the door when he realised Hazel had clocked him. I imagine his eyes were all over the place as soon as he walked in, I spotted those two glasses Ebony had forgotten about as did Robbo but didn't even glance at them. Not a new trick wanting to use the loo to 'surprise' someone hiding there. Didn't waste time either when he got back calling Lance to do some digging on Ebony Harding the name is she going by. Hazel, naturally, is worried Ebony is closer to Robbo than she is admitting. Ash has been at a loss since he got back, now he and Tori have split, apart from the business he doesn't have a real reason to stay. The bay has been good to him, he's had good and bad times. I could see the light bulb go on when Leah was telling him & Justin about her going to Cyprus. Hearing about Luc over Skype or whatever and knowing VJ would always let her know all about her uncle Ash/Marty isn't the same as being there and holding and talking to her. Whether at that moment he meant it to be permanent he obviously did later. Justin was wrong though Ash isn't running away this time. He certainly seemed a lot more at ease once he had made the decision. Prickly subject of Tori being informed of course. I take it Cyprus has no problem with letting an ex con into the country.
atrus Posted July 19, 2018 Report Posted July 19, 2018 OK, I've been waiting for weeks to finally talk about this Ty storyline sans tags, so apologies in advance for the essay. I'll preface all this by saying that most of us know the history, and that we don't know on what conditions the H&A writers and/or producers managed to secure the green light for this storyline. But I think it's fair to assume there will have been at least some conditions, and I imagine that's why it has been as low-key as it has, so far at least. But I want to emphasise how pleased I am that they did secure it, finally, and so I want to make it clear that any criticism that follows is criticism of the final product, influenced as it may have been from network level down, rather than merely criticism of the writers, who I know have wanted this for a long time. Some of you may recall my incoherent rants about the Tabitha storyline, which almost drove me away from the show not so long ago because of what I felt were unfortunate 'psycho lesbian' undertones - which, in the context of H&A's chequered LGBT history, left me feeling pretty angry in a way that soaps rarely achieve. Suffice it to say that this already feels very different, so whatever my final judgement on this story, I do think it represents really positive progress. The first criticism is that there has been very scant build-up to this. We've had one or two telling lines from Ty and a couple of fond glances in Ryder's direction - but for his first few weeks on the show you'd have been convinced he was into Raffy, and it's only in the last two or three episodes he's been in that anything different has been suggested; and even then, nothing you're necessarily going to notice unless you knew what was coming. Whether the intention of this was to keep the reveal a surprise for viewers, to ensure Raffy had something substantial to do during this period, or simply to allow the show to keep the story as low-key as possible for as long as possible, I'm not sure - the cynic in me suspects the third option. The few Ryder/Ty scenes we've had have been really nice up to now - the juice-making, and Ryder's apology for leaving him in the lurch at school - but that's exactly why I wanted more of them. You can count those scenes on one hand, and I would rather have concentrated on building up their friendship than having Ty embark on a relationship with Raffy. Putting my 'average viewer' hat on for a second, I don't hate Raffy's involvement in all this, and I fully understand why it works dramatically to have Ty date her. But personally I would rather Raffy's feelings for Ty had been depicted as one-sided, or at least have him put the brakes on after their kiss. Instead, he's just gone along with it, which, while far from unrealistic or unforgivable for a confused teenager, allows the argument to be made that he's behaving badly towards Raffy by attempting to initiate something with a boy while they're dating. It thereby muddies the focus of the story in a way I'd probably have preferred not to when the show is properly acknowledging the existence of LGBT people for the first time in nearly a decade. The second criticism (though we'll see how it pans out) is the apparent one-sidedness of Ty/Ryder. Given all the strife between Ryder and Coco of late, and the relative lack of passion in that relationship, I'll admit I had been hoping for the outside chance that there would be some sense of reciprocation from Ryder, which perhaps would have taken him by surprise and made him reflect on his own sexuality. This would have been braver - Ryder is after all (for the moment) the regular character here, so it would have more clearly heralded a new era in H&A's approach to this rather than just essentially retreading the Chris/Seb stuff from the 2000s. I was also willing Ryder just to roll with it purely on a character level, on the grounds that Ty is a much nicer person than Coco and actually seems to like and care for Ryder. But of course life doesn't work like that. And unless things take an unexpected turn in that direction tomorrow (and from the promo it doesn't look like they will) I think it's clear that we have to accept this as another unrequited crush story. I'm keenly aware that some have already argued elsewhere that this is a stale trope, and that H&A should be doing better for LGBT representation in 2018 than a one-sided crush on a straight boy. Indeed, taken on its own, I would agree this simply isn't enough in this day and age - and so if it proves to be the entirety of Ty's story, I will probably be disappointed. All that said, I will maintain, having been in exactly Ty's shoes as a teenager, that this crush and the scenes in this episode, regardless of what comes before and after, remain as relevant and poignant today as they would ever have been in years gone by. There was a nice letting-down-of-guards while they listened to the song and each admitted their lack of experience with girls - and then I thought the bench confession scene in particular was lovely. Putting the complications posed by Raffy aside for a minute, Ty's decision to go in for the kiss was justified, I think, by his heightened emotional state and by Ryder's apparently heartfelt reciprocal response to his 'I like you', with an added 'you're the best' - which feels so atypically tactile for a straight male teen that it's no wonder Ty took it the way he did. That said, I think it was very much in character for Ryder specifically, who doesn't appear to have any serious aspirations towards hypermasculinity, or reservations about speaking his feelings. It was also in character, I thought, for him to be completely and frustratingly oblivious to what had been happening until the moment Ty leaned in. As for his reaction - there was confusion and surprise, sure, but no sense of anger towards Ty and (thank god) no attempt to hit him. Just a straightforward acknowledgement that he didn't 'mean it like that' and an attempt to call Ty back to talk about it as he did a runner. Judging by the promo, there seems to be a degree of denial/self-loathing from Ty (I think I might be happier without the shoving on the beach, but anyway...), and Ryder attempting to reassure him that it's okay for him to be gay - as well as an apparent loyal refusal to reveal the reason for Ty's anger to Alf, despite the threat of punishment. So it's looking like the whole story is reflecting really well on Ryder, at the moment. But I'll reserve full comment on that until we see exactly how things play out tomorrow. All I'll add is that I think my final response to this storyline will depend significantly on whether or not Ty becomes a long-term presence on the show. If he does, then I'm very happy with this as an introductory storyline to his sexuality - and I do think he's an interesting enough character to have stick around. If he doesn't, a lot of fans are going to be disappointed that H&A has again made LGBT representation a flash-in-the-pan event. But I will reserve judgement on that until either Ty leaves, or his name is added to the main cast in the closing titles. But overall, whatever happens next, I'm glad we are here and are doing this; as a viewer of this show since a very young age who still remembers how the Shannon/Mandy storyline connected with me even before I fully understood why, its treatment of gay characters has always been something close to my heart and, whatever this storyline's limitations, I contend that it's at least 100% better to have it than not at all. In other news - the amount of Tori dithering about whether to rock up for Ash's goodbye was excessive (and looks to be continuing unabated tomorrow), but nonetheless there was some really lovely acting from Penny McNamee today. And Hunter and Olivia continue to completely ignore their decision not to spend their entire lives in each other's pockets, much to the surprise of nobody.
Red Ranger 1 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Posted July 19, 2018 9 hours ago, D.B said: While I do believe that VJ is much better a father figure to Luc than Ash, (even though he did struggle), and I really didn't like Ash in the custody storyline, Ash still should have an important part of Luc's life growing up, so if he was to stay in Cyprus to live with VJ and Luc, I would be mainly fine with it. I actually agree with you. If this does end with Ash moving to Cyprus permanently and being Luc's uncle, I'd be absolutely fine with it: That's what he is and what he should be. I guess I've just got this tiny niggle that if Ash spends too much time around them then he'll want a bigger role than he should have and try and take over again and push VJ out. So if we hear that he visited them, had a nice time and then moved on, I'd be happy with that too. 8 hours ago, H&Alover said: Ziggy was being very optimistic with wanting Maggie to be there for her children and her children's children. Well...given the family's tendency to marry and have children young, Ziggy could be a grandmother in 20-25 years, at which point Maggie would only be in her 60s. So, life-threatening illness apart, it doesn't seem that optimistic. But anyway, today. And I think I'll start with Ash, even though I should probably leave most of my thoughts until tomorrow.As Alf and co sort-of said, he's probably brought more good than bad to the Bay and every time he's gone off the deep end, he's found his way back.He's lost a lot, and there's not really much left for him in the Bay, so it's probably right he moves on. Tori, who's once again forgotten that they broke up, didn't really give him much of a reason to stick around and was more than a bit annoying, although I get her point that Ash can't expect her to sit around waiting on the off chance that he comes back.The "Bunch of random characters who happen to be in the episode (but not Raffy, even though most of her family are there and she lived with Ash at one point) gather for farewell drinks" trope was a bit feeble but possibly Ash doesn't really warrant a big party.It will though be very odd if Ash leaves without saying goodbye to Dean, even if he has already said goodbye to him once this year.(As I pointed out in spoiler tags a few weeks back, we got a farewell scene with Irene too!)And yeah, Hunter and Olivia spending the whole episode together was eye-rolling. So, yeah, Ty. And I'm not sure I can compete with atrus' essay but I'll have a go.I think we're slightly ahead of Chris/Seb from 15 years ago, in that they did actually allow a kiss (albeit a one-sided one) rather than a panicked lunge and dodge.That said, we're somewhat behind Joey/Charlie from 9 years ago, where a similar scenario resulted in a main character questioning their sexuality and embarking on a same-sex relationship. On the other other hand, this isn't Hollyoaks, and I'm not sure I'd agree with a previously 100% straight character deciding he's gay as soon as his best mate kisses him (or soon after).Ryder has handled it well so far, being shocked and being straight with Ty but also sympathising.I think the hints have been strong enough.Right from the episode where they met, Ty obviously enjoyed Ryder's company more than anyone else's, relaxing with him when he was still being surly with everyone else.And I guess it depends where they go with it from now on.Ty did seem to go for Raffy mostly because it was expected of him, and while he's tried to be a good boyfriend, there have been plenty of times when his instincts have failed him.And Raffy's been aware of that, for all of Coco's misjudged pep talks: She might not have actually reached the right conclusion, but she can see that in some ways he's closer to Ryder than her.I suspect this is the first time Ty's been attracted to a boy and it's taken him by surprise, and he's not really thinking.So, on balance, it's a good start and we should reserve judgement until we see where they're going from here.
atrus Posted July 19, 2018 Report Posted July 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said: I think we're slightly ahead of Chris/Seb from 15 years ago, in that they did actually although a kiss (albeit a one-sided one) rather than a panicked lunge and dodge I'm reluctant to say that the extent of the physicality should necessarily be deemed a barometer for progress if that physicality is one-sided - indeed, in the modern #metoo age, it's usually considered the opposite - and I would say that this still essentially qualifies as 'lunge and dodge' territory. (Which, by the way, isn't me saying that I think Ty did anything wrong in going in for the kiss, because I really don't. He may have misread the runes, but I'd never condemn him for planting a quick peck on someone he thinks and hopes might feel the same way.) Ty certainly got a lip brush in this time around which is more than Chris managed, although that's more to do with the logistics of them not having had a table between them, I think. That said, I suppose the fact that that lip brush is even transmissible is progress for H&A - and I think there are already several other ways in which this is showing itself to be a superior storyline. 3 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said: That said, we're somewhat behind Joey/Charlie from 9 years ago, where a similar scenario resulted in a main character questioning their sexuality and embarking on a same-sex relationship. On the other other hand, this isn't Hollyoaks, and I'm not sure I'd agree with a previously 100% straight character deciding he's gay as soon as his best mate kisses him (or soon after). OK, I'm not too much of a zealot on this: I think it's perfectly plausible that Ryder is and has always been straight, and his reaction to Ty's attempt to kiss him seems to confirm that's the case - there was no denial or overreaction but just a simple, believable statement of "this isn't for me". But I also think the writers could equally have chosen a different direction, and that Ryder could easily, plausibly have been gay, bi or bi-curious. Sure, Ryder has been dating Coco, but many if not most gay teens go through the having-girlfriends phase - and Ryder's Lothario routine in particular, towards both Coco and Raffy, has been so OTT and performative since Day 1 that I often wondered, long prior to hearing about the Ty storyline, whether he might have been concealing something - and whether a 'real Ryder' was hiding behind that mask that he wanted the girls and others to see. I also felt Ryder and Coco's relationship was very similar to Ty and Raffy's, in that there was a sense of them going through the motions because that's just what's done, without a huge amount of passion on either side. Of course, there are a thousand reasons teenagers go through the motions of relationships, and it doesn't necessarily mean they're gay. I'm just saying I think it would have been a totally plausible avenue. If we were talking about a 'previously 100% straight' character who'd been with five or six women over a period of three years, that's one thing (although bisexuality is often totally forgotten as a possibility in those circumstances) - but Ryder is young and inexperienced, so I don't think the 'straight so far' argument really applies in the same way. Part of the reason Charlie and Joey was so controversial, IMO, is because of the perception that Joey had somehow corrupted Charlie's straightness. Whereas really, one of the messages we need to be hearing is that people can't be 'corrupted' into homosexuality; they either have the proclivity for it, or they don't, and even if they do start to feel that way about someone of the same gender in a way they hadn't ever before, then it shouldn't be deemed a negative thing. I think it's entirely plausible that Ryder might have felt like that (and who knows - perhaps I'm counting the chickens way too soon on this in assuming he doesn't, given the story has only just kicked off), but I still think the show will ultimately shy away from this path. Not because there's any good character reason why Ryder couldn't pursue it, but because everyone remembers what happened last time we had reciprocation. All that said, I'm really very keen not to create the impression that I'm undermining the value of telling the 'unrequited crush on straight boy' story in and of itself. That's a story I wholeheartedly believe in telling, and for that reason I'm reluctant to be too critical. I think it's only because of the dearth of actual male-male relationships on H&A that I'm so keen on a reciprocal relationship here; if any other soap, with a richer history of positively-depicted gay characters and reciprocal relationships, did this storyline, then I would be totally down with it. As I said in my first post, unrequited love for straight friends is an enduring and challenging scenario for gay teens everywhere. There's nothing wrong with showing that per se, and I'm prepared to cut the show some slack exactly because I think it's such an important story to tell; I just hope it isn't going to be the only kind of depiction we get on H&A going forward.
D.B Posted July 20, 2018 Report Posted July 20, 2018 Well, this episode has given us all a lot to talk about. To start with the easiest one, here's my view on Ash: for most of the time he's been on, I have found him, I'll admit, quite annoying with his extremely loud voice and his preference to use his fists before his mind, but however, I have always liked him for his most likeable quality: his loyalty. He has always been shown to be loyal to his family and friends, like when he allowed VJ to take Luc away for her own safety, the way he tried to help Brax when he went to prison and, of course, he was always there for Kat, when Nate broke up with her, when Dylan hit her, when she left the force, and even when they broke up, Ash still continued to look out for her, when things went down with Robbo (even though Robbo was innocent). He made, in fairness, many mistakes, of course, but however it wasn't for himself, mainly it was because for someone he cared for about was hurt, so while like nearly every time he was wrong, he did it for those he cared about. I think it's great that's he's moving on, after all that went down recently, he deserves some happiness. However, I did find Tori's denying his decision very annoying, there's not much left in the Bay for him, just let him go! They broke up, it's not really her decision, even though I did feel a small bit sorry for her, having to say goodbye for another boyfriend. But I'm glad the community, well most of them anyway, held a small sending off for him, I always like it when they do that, like with the Walkers, Maddy and Jett, etc,etc. Though I would have thought Brody (who appeared to have a good friendship with him), Ziggy (who worked with him) and Dean, who was closer to him than anyone else at the time with the exception of Tori, Justin and Irene, would have been there, but I'm glad there was something for him. And at least he called Irene too. His speech was good as well. But, actually, I just realised, when he leaves, the last remaining member of what I called the Braxton circle (which consisted of the Braxtons, Bianca, April, Ricky, Tamara, Charlie, Ruby, Natalie, Andy, Josh, Zac, Pheobe, Nate and Ash) will be gone. Wow, the end of an era. Now to the main issue: Ryder and Ty. Well, when I first heard about it, I though it would be great to have a gay character in the show. I haven't watched it when Charlie and Joey happened, though I did hear a lot about it and the controversy that followed, but I was really excited about this story to see Ty and Ryder both struggle with their sexuality. But, as atrus did say, there's wasn't really much bulid up to it. Yes, we did have some fun scenes with the two, but we had nothing to suggest to us that Ty was feeling like this. You can argue that Ty's awkwardness towards Raffy and the fact he was more relaxed with Ryder meant that it meant something, but I always thought that meant Ty was just nervous about Raffy liking him and felt more comfortable talking to Ryder to help him, but as a friend or even like a brother. There was little to suggest that Ty may actually have uncertainties about who he liked. Ryder behaved very well with all this, acting very understanding and not overreacted or intentionally make Ty comfortable. The best way I think this story could go is that Ryder begins to have doubts on his own sexuality as well, and with the help of their friends and families, they can find what both of them really want. I'm also curious on how Raffy is going to see it, you make a good point Red, Raffy did say Ty does spend more time with Ryder than her, so it will be interesting how she'll react when this comes out. Now most of this has already been said by atrus and Red and I agree with both of them on several of their points, so there's not really much I can say here, but I just thought I'll have my say on it. Also, today, I'm feeling a bit lazy.
H&Alover Posted July 20, 2018 Report Posted July 20, 2018 Wow can't possibly match your comments atrus but in short It is a bold decision on TPTB's part considering the ages of Ty & Ryder, they are both minors, OK Ryder is 17 but Ty at 15 is underage for having sex with anyone boy or girl with is why I commented to myself when he told Ryder he'd never been with a girl "I should hope not". Other forays into gay/bi relationships have been between adults, then there was that situation with Spencer & Keith who was trying to groom him by pretending to be a girl. Actually I think it was better to have a slow build up that way those of us who didn't know what was going to occur were as surprised as Ryder. Ty's intense looks at Ryder have been getting more and more noticeable during the last week though not when Ryder was looking. Of course we don't know how long Ty has had these feelings which is why maybe he took his time. Unreciprocated love can happen between girl and boy too as has been seen many, many times, girl or boy misreads signals leans in for kiss only to discover boy or girl doesn't feel for them the same way. I don't think Ty has deliberately led Raffy on, he's not that cold or cunning. Let's not forget it's a first girlfriend/boyfriend for both Raffy & Ty so neither sure of how to act around each other, neither Ryder or Coco are much help they were first time boy/girlfriend. Raffy felt her nose had been put out of joint because Ty had played his song to Ryder when she thought it was exclusive to her, but as Coco wisely pointed out he played it to her first. I can understand Raffy's disappointment when Ty was so dismissive of her in her dress whereas Ryder was WOW. Although Coco was trying to be reassuring with that hug but the look on her face over Raffy's shoulder told a different story. As for that kiss Ryder was more surprised than shocked and didn't push Ty away in utter revulsion and dealt with it in an adult way - actually there would be adults out there who wouldn't have dealt with it that well. As an aside we don't want TPTB doing a story like this just to be PC and feeling they ought to to avoid getting accused of ignoring the LGBT folk out there, much better they are doing it because it is a good storyline. The bay is only a small town not a big city where there would be more likelihood of a boy/boy or girl/girl relationship developing without drawing too much attention. Re the Charlie/Joey story didn't one of the characters at the time joke about what mind set she was in that day gay, straight or bi? Natural for Ty to deny he has those sort of feelings the following day and just because he's gay doesn't mean he shouldn't react the way anyone would by typical bloke shoving, or in Willow's case slapping when someone tells them the truth. All credit to Ryder for not telling Alf the reason for the fight though we only saw a snippet, I think sometimes Ryder's casualness does make you forget he can be a loyal and thoughtful friend, besides it's not his secret to tell. In any case it looks like Ty has decided he doesn't want to run the risk of it getting out and has done a runner. Please don't think I'm being flippant but when the news (and it surely will) about Ty comes out at least Maz and John can stop worrying about leaving him and Raffy alone - I am so sorry. Good point there Red re Maggie! Tori could learn a thing or two from Ryder her frankly childish behaviour on hearing Ash was leaving actually insulted children. They aren't together so what is she hoping will happen by demanding he stay. Half expecting her to stamp her foot, though wouldn't have the same effect on the sand. Even carried on insisting he wasn't leaving back at The Diner so allowing Hunter & Olivia to overhear he was going - oh no he isn't - oh yes he is - sorry couldn't resist. Showed her true feelings though back at the hospital. She hasn't had much luck with blokes since coming out of WP Nat who is working for Careflight, Duncan who's still married anyway and in Hawaii and now Ash. Do get she wasn't prepared to wait how many times do we hear someone saying "I'll be back" and we never see them again? Justin was trying to get through to her it's right for Ash to go, didn't realise though it was going to be that quick and it' not a knee jerk reaction and he's looking forward for a change, visiting Luc and VJ then moving on. He's a qualified mechanic so could get work anywhere. Liked that impromptu party though what was with Alf's 'I heard from Morgan Ashford is leaving'? Alf, John, Maz and co turning on a coin again, not long ago Ash was the baddest of the bad, now he's not that bad really. There is one goodbye not mentioned but we'll see it tonight. Atrus I wouldn't worry your pretty little head about Tori saying goodbye to Ash either. Raffy was with Ryder, Ty and Coco at the same as the leaving do. Quick question has Leah already left for Cyprus because that will mean she'll miss Ziggy's wedding after all that help she gave Maggie too. I echo your thoughts about Ash D.B. He has had a hot temper and hit first, thought later but that was the environment he grew up in and knew. But as you rightly said he was a loyal friend, once someone did something for him he was there for them and ready to help them out if they should need it. Brax helped him out when he was inside by grasing. up Gunno and therefore was there for Brax, he even lied to his family when Brax played dead. Broke back into prison to rescue Heath and Bianca when Gunno put the prison into shutdown. He and Justin didn't get off to a good start but become firm friends and helped him many times. He got Dean the job at the garage to repay him for his help with Robbo.
Red Ranger 1 Posted July 20, 2018 Report Posted July 20, 2018 17 hours ago, atrus said: If we were talking about a 'previously 100% straight' character who'd been with five or six women over a period of three years, that's one thing (although bisexuality is often totally forgotten as a possibility in those circumstances) - but Ryder is young and inexperienced, so I don't think the 'straight so far' argument really applies in the same way. That was possibly bad phrasing on my behalf. I don't think there's been anything to suggest Ryder isn't straight: He might hide behind false bravado, but his interest in Coco seems genuine and to be from him (admittedly with the suggestion that he only decided on her because Raffy ruled herself out). But you are, of course, quite right in that it's far from impossible that someone of Ryder's age who hasn't had much experience with girls would realise that he likes boys.As for Joey and Charlie, I'm not sure opposition went much beyond "How dare they show women kissing?", so a lip brush feels like a small victory from that point of view. Alf's episode count this week:Three. Roo didn't appear, although at least we were told where she was. And right back in there: Ryder, on the whole, showed himself to be a good and supportive friend.I was surprised at how quickly he told Coco, but I guess he needed someone to talk to, Raffy's too involved and someone older would have taken over.And to her credit, Coco did understand the need to be discreet.I'm trying not to think badly of Alf, since Ryder can be a pain at times.Ideally he'd have realised that Ryder was being a loyal friend and not gone all drill sergeant on him though (especially since, as Ryder pointed out, he didn't react to Ty's shoving), and I hope that once the truth comes out Alf will apologise to and commend Ryder.Of course, the truth does pretty much have to come out now that Ty's done a runner.Trying very hard not to be too judgemental or patronising, since I've never been through this myself: It is a shame that Ty is in such denial here when no-one has a problem with the idea of him being gay.(Well, as Coco points out, Raffy might have a problem with it, but not in the abstract.)On the other hand, it's possibly easier to be on the outside looking in and saying you don't have a problem with it than coming to a realisation about yourself that you weren't expecting and having to face up to the fact that some of what you expected your future to be like needs to be rethought.Still, hopefully Ty can come to terms with it soon. And farewell to Ash.I guess it's a marginally more positive departure than his last one, even if he hasn't really done anything in those extra few weeks.No goodbye with Dean, so I guess we have to make do with the one from when he last left, and Ash doesn't even manage to convince Justin to give him another chance.(And their last scene together was passing each other in a doorway on Wednesday!)I could have easily done without a farewell with Robbo, but what we got was passable.The handshake was unnecessary, but it was rightly played as Ash not really wanting to shake his hand but knowing he'll look like a tool if he doesn't.No hearts and flowers, no exchange of apologies, no big speechs about how much Kat meant to them both, just a curt acknowledgement and maybe an acceptance that while they'll never be friends they don't have to be enemies anymore.I agree with Tori's family telling her that she'd regret it if she didn't say a proper goodbye to Ash, but I really could have done without the five minute farewell that followed.I just do not see them as even approaching the love of each other's life, just people that dated.But that's him gone, and in a fairly positive manner.I'm not saying he's left a hole in the show but he was a likable enough character for the most part so I'm glad he didn't get dropped off a cliff.
atrus Posted July 20, 2018 Report Posted July 20, 2018 Apologies again for what will no doubt prove an essay. In my defence, I'm only going into this depth because of how important I think this is and these scenes have been. OK - I'll start with Ryder, who seems to have handled things exceptionally well for a lad his age. Except perhaps from telling Coco, that is; I didn't especially agree with that, but on the other hand I can see that at that moment in time, Ryder was still processing things and probably felt he needed someone to bounce his thoughts off. I would probably have stuck a line in the script beforehand to have Ryder ask Coco to promise not to tell Raffy, though. To be fair to Coco, I was expecting her to run straight back to Raffy and do exactly that, but she did the right thing here by deciding immediately that she wouldn't, of her own accord. She was behaving pretty maturely all round today, actually (although it was a bit galling listening to her lecture Ryder about needing to talk to her. when she recently spent however many weeks ignoring his calls/texts and treating him like dirt who had no business talking to her). I liked Ryder's attempt to talk to Ty, and reassure him that he wasn't angry. Unfortunately Ty responded quite violently despite Ryder's insistence on not pushing him back, which was sad - but I think Darius Williams really nailed the sense that he was acting out of a fairly deep-seated complex about his identity. That was also reflected in the script I think, with Ty's tragically ridiculous claim that he was 'tired' and thought Ryder was Raffy - obviously something said out of absolute desperation. Afterwards, John lost a hell of a lot of points with me for heading back out to the diner while Ty was in such a visibly distraught state; the very fact that he felt the need to ask whether he'd be okay on his own should have given him the answer he needed, and I'm sure the last thing Ty would have wanted at that moment was food. Not wanting to labour the point, but I've known people that age whose first thought after that kind of fall-out with a Ryder-equivalent was to walk straight into oncoming traffic. I'm not saying most kids or even Ty would think that way, but it seemed desperately obvious to me that he was in a really bad way - and John should have absolutely have stayed put when he so clearly needed him, even if that meant just sitting quietly for a while and not saying anything. Since he didn't, Ty had the opportunity to do a runner. I'm a strong believer in not outing other people, and Ryder did the noble thing by not telling Alf what was going on and suffering the punishment accordingly - but that was before we knew Ty had run away, and I think Ryder will probably need to at least make it clear that there's a good reason he's keeping quiet, and that Ty is likely to be in a lot of distress. (John really ought to have clocked that already, but evidently he didn't realise quite how much.) There's a fair argument that if Ty is thought to be in danger, Ryder could tell John and Marilyn what happened in confidence. But I'm afraid he is quite right to keep it from Raffy, however unfair that might seem to her later on. Out-of-universe - hmm. I'm so conflicted as to how to respond to today's episode. On one hand, I want to heap a huge amount of praise on the depictions of Ryder and Ty, and the amount of time we spent with those characters today - the storyline was shared only with one other. We also had some excellent acting from those concerned; and dramatically speaking, taking the promo into account too, it feels a lot more fleshed-out than the comparatively half-arsed Chris/Seb story from years ago. Politically... I don't know whether I have a problem with Ty being so violently self-loathing. On one hand, again, I've seen people I care about react like this first-hand to their sexuality being questioned - it's still a problem in 2018, and some youngsters still have a really hard time coming to terms with it, particularly if they've faced homophobia at home, which Ty may well have. On the other hand, I'm extremely mindful of what people have argued on these boards and elsewhere - namely, that you can't have no gay characters for a decade, and then in 2018 still be content only to present homosexuality as some kind of problem, or an issue that needs to be addressed. To be fair, the two other characters who know something's going on with Ty, Ryder and Coco, seemed very clearly of the view that his sexuality wasn't a problem as far as they were concerned. Ryder told Ty as much himself, while Coco seemed surprised that Ty wouldn't just have told them when he first arrived in town. Then later, Ryder explicitly tells us that Ty's problem is how he feels about himself, and hence, his sexuality is not the issue per se. In most contexts, because it is still such a problem, I don't have an issue with that story being told. On the other hand, I can't deny I flinch a bit when we have lines like 'I'm a freak' coming from a gay character on this show in particular. And yes, I think it does make a difference which show it is. We've seen in Neighbours in the past couple of years, with David Tanaka, how it is possible to portray internalised homophobia sensitively and see a character come out of it the other side, to be happy and at peace with themselves. But it's different for Neighbours, which has now had eight years of a constant LGBT presence in the regular cast, and will probably never be gay-free again. And that's precisely why, if H&A is going down this route, it surely should be in the context that Ty will be sticking around once all this has subsided, so we can see him become well-adjusted, happy, and fall in love with someone who feels the same way. Time will tell. Elsewhere, I was glad that Ash and Tori got to say goodbye, in some more pretty raw, emotional and well-acted scenes. I thought they were particularly good at the end, with George Mason's acting choice strongly suggesting that he was genuinely waiting for Tori to talk him into staying, and her kind of missing the opportunity, I think, because she was so upset. I admit I wasn't concentrating on their thread as much as I should've been, though, because I was too invested in the other storyline and was keen to get back to it. Guess I'll have to wait till Monday - and from the promo with Ty injured in The Bush, it looks like it could be another reprise for the orange jumpsuits...
H&Alover Posted July 22, 2018 Report Posted July 22, 2018 I was very impressed with the way Ryder acted towards Ty on the beach, he showed such a lot of maturity, spoke to him in a calm manner, not patronising, just trying to make it a normal conversation about what had happened the night before. Told Ty he had no problem with his sexuality but naturally I suppose Ty wasn't in the mood to take it in, embarrassment, shame, the fact he may have lost a friend, which probably explains his reaction and him suggesting Ryder had doubts about his own sexuality. It was mainly Ty doing the shoving and Ryder just fending him off. I may be wrong but I think Ty's attempt to kiss Ryder may have been the first time he'd tried anything like that, I bet neither of them had a good nights sleep. More credit, as said before for Ryder refusing to tell Alf what it was all about and saying he would do any chores he wanted him to do rather than tell him. I think when Alf does find out he'll be very proud of Ryder. Arguments I guess on both sides for Ryder telling Coco, but she was there, along with Raffy, when it went down, Ty going off into the night and Ryder just coming in and saying he was going home. They may not be a couple anymore but she does know him and knew something serious was bothering him, it wouldn't have helped matters any if she had gone off and asked Ty. Once again Ryder proved he was more sensible than a lot of adults by taking Coco outside where they couldn't be overheard. Like Ryder Coco was more surprised than shocked and definitely not repulsed in any way. He knew she wouldn't flip out on him and I don't think there was any need for Ryder to ask Coco to keep quiet. Did make it awkward for her later though when Raffy was asking about the 'fight' and what could have caused it. Re your comment atrus about Coco being surprised Ty didn't mention it when he turned up, not really something you would drop into a conversation the first time you meet a load of people you've never met before. Ty is only 15, tough enough for an adult to admit it to new people. As for his "I'm a freak" comment maybe his granddad is homophobic and has made that very remark about gays and he thinks a lot of him so his opinion would matter very much, not wanting to bring ethnicity into it but he does seem to have aboriginal blood in him so could be a cultural thing too. Sadly atrus there are still folk out there who are homophobic putting any family members, children, grandchildren in the position of not saying anything for fear of getting disowned. John was in a tricky position really, he didn't want to push Ty into revealing what was wrong and have him clam up completely, actually for him he was quite sensitive not a word you would normally associate with John, maybe he shouldn't have left Ty alone, but in Ty's current state he wouldn't have opened up to him and just waited until he could leave. I don't think it would have been any different if it had been Marilyn there instead of John, maybe have made it worse Maz can be pretty overpowering in her quest to help someone. We've seen the young 'uns, well two of them at any rate, reactions to Ty's sexuality but it'll be interesting to see the adults response. Raffy though may well be different, feel Ty used her as a cover, an experiment, he was her first boyfriend and it's not going to help her confidence with other lads in the future. She may be angry with Ryder & Coco and irrational I know think they were in on it and laughing at her behind her back. So a brief visit to the other story which needed tidying up, Ash certainly got all that paperwork sorted out pretty damn quick. He did have another try at getting Justin to take Dean back but although he's going to be short handed while Ziggy is on honeymoon, garage is open I see, it wouldn't work with them working together. Personally I liked the fact Ash said a goodbye to Robbo, slightly awkward with that handshake, but Ash would have looked petty if he hadn't, I believe Robbo was genuine in wishing Ash well. They didn't need any speeches, apologies, I think they both took it as a given that anything that that happened was in the past. That goodbye between Tori and Ash needed to happen and of course it had to be a last minute dash after her "I'm not saying goodbye" statements. I think the last one was Zac and Leah after her saying more or less the same thing then rushing to say goodbye to him. There must be only way out of town to the airport and NDH just happens to be on that road otherwise Tori could have missed him! Ah someone lost in The Bush - we haven't had that happen for a couple of weeks - who was the last?
Slade Posted July 23, 2018 Report Posted July 23, 2018 On 15/07/2018 at 14:00, H&Alover said: Tori does have an additional reason not to trust Ebony, just weeks ago she was wearing her neck brace, claiming the pain in her neck was getting worse/spreading now she's swanning around like nothing happened. Also she does know Robbo is quite vulnerable still and she doesn't trust Ebony's motives in getting close to him. I accept that's a reason not to trust Ebony but the way she looked back at them after saying hello when they appeared to be enjoying themselves when Robbo put his hand on Ebony's shoulder to me suggests jealousy. Even Ash was suspicious of her when she brought it up right afterwards. And then she took Robbo to one side and warned him about Ebony. I don't believe Robbo was so vulnerable he needed to be warned about a girl which Tori felt wasn't genuine about a car accident. I would have expected her under normal circumstances to give Ebony the benefit of the doubt. She and Ash were even arguing about it on the way back to hers which caused him to not want to spend the night with her. I don't think Tori would have made that much of a fuss just because she suspects someone feigned a neck injury. Her main driver was envy. It's funny that Willow asked Mason if everybody knew about her slapping Jasmine as my immediate thought was that they would given that Marilyn saw it. Laughed when she deleted the Gambling App - As if she was never going to connect online and download it again. I think Willow's proven just how low she's prepared to go and I wasn't happy about Dean getting himself in debt to bail her out. I don't have one iota of sympathy for her and was actually glad Ebony set her up. Just a shame Dean had to protect her over that as well. Really not happy about this storyline with Ty as I was kind of hoping to see a relationship with Raffy. Feels like the writers have changed their minds about the character and they're determined not to let Raffy be happy. Ryder has actually gone up in my estimation given how he's conducted himself since Ty kissed him trying to support him as a mate. I understand it was difficult for Ty but Ryder did tell him he was still into Coco. Had to laugh when Ty said he was confused and thought Ryder was Raffy. Hoping it doesn't hit Raffy too hard when she finds out. When Tori started crying over Ash when she heard he was leaving I just shook my head. Although I am glad Justin managed to talk her into saying goodbye to him. It would have been harsh otherwise just to let him go like that. Although I'm sure in a week or two when the next guy shows up and starts spending time with her Tori will be in love with him too. Really don't like what I'm seeing with Hunter and Olivia.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.