H&A Summer Break on Fiver

[Slade]

Brief word on yesterday's episodes. Seeing them reminded me how much I used to hate Jack at times. I always used to hate the way he was so sanctimonious and self-righteous. I'm not condoning what Sam did but let's face it, Johnny Cooper was a sociopath. He almost killed Sally, tried to kill Ric and if he'd ever been freed from prison would have simply continued his reign of terror (didn't see the stuff with Rocco so I'm not sure how responsible Johnny was for his death). So you could argue that Sam did the world a favour. The worst thing is I believe if Martha had done that and begged Jack not to go to the police he would have done whatever it takes to protect her. I remember Sam scratching Martha but I can't quite remember what happened and why Roman and Martha were acting so suspiciously after that so I'll remind myself by looking at the episode guides.

Oh and a scene with Axel, another character I quite liked...

[Pierced Musie]

Watching those episodes again reminded me of my hatred with the U-turn of Sam. I think the way the character was changed into a complete psycho was beyond moronic and an obvious backtrack for the fabulous couple that was Bartha & the tree (Kim was the plank, Jack was the tree...).

Todays episodes rocked but that goes without saying

And I hate to be a pain but can anyone put episode numbers to these eps that are being shown. I've tried but for some reason am failing miserably.

[beau_t]

Watching those episodes again reminded me of my hatred with the U-turn of Sam. I think the way the character was changed into a complete psycho was beyond moronic and an obvious backtrack for the fabulous couple that was Bartha & the tree (Kim was the plank, Jack was the tree

I was a big fan of Sam's character and I don't believe there was a U-turn or that she was changed into a psycho. If anything this storyline showed Jack (and to a lesser extent Martha) as the selfish people they are. Their love was so destructive that it made a woman like Sam go to the lengths she did. Not that Sam was blameless - people always have a choice. But Jack and Martha made her believe that she didn't. They are the real villains in this storyline. Sam was not a psycho she was just a very very tragic character who dared to come between the almighty J&M.

Just remembering this storyline is making me angry. I forgot how much I used to hate J&M. Jack's death was the best thing that ever happened to Martha's character.

[Red Ranger 1]

For anyone who's still wondering, the episodes are available on Demand Five at Home and Away Summer Holiday.The episodes so far, in repeat broadcast order, were 4620-4623, 4606, 4610, 3385 and 3390.

As for Sam, I think they did change the character in order to get rid of her and have a Jack/Martha reunion, they suddenly invented a whole new back story for her and turned her into a cold-blooded killer who was assisting an even more cold-blooded killer.(Actually, the thing I really hated about the storyline was that they brought Johnny back and had him destroy yet more lives, because it basically meant Rocco died for nothing.)While you could argue that she did the world a favour by killing Johnny, she mainly did it to cover up her own actions, not to mention the fact she basically set up Julie to take the blame, and you can hardly blame Jack for that.(Indeed, if she'd gone to Jack in the first place rather than giving in to Johnny's blackmail and helping him, she'd probably have been all right.Even if he broke up with her, at least she'd be alive and free.)She managed to stay borderline sympathetic, mainly because of the acting rather than the writing.Jack was morally correct but I agree he was hypocritical and his complete lack of loyalty towards his wife was disappointing, it might have been better for him to do his job but remain sympathetic and try to help her in what little way he could rather than just turning his back on her completely.That might have saved her but in the end it was her own choices that literally cost her everything.Would he have let Martha get away with murder?I don't know.While he covered for her on occasion, that may have been a step too far for him.(And he's probably turning in his grave at how she's ended up...)

So...today.And wow.I've obviously got a bit of a blind spot about that period because I've no idea about half those storylines, what happened with Jesse being charged with assault, who that baby Sally was looking at photos of was...But it was terrific to see all those characters again.And we get the next episode tomorrow so maybe I'll remember a bit more then.I take back what I said about Angie not getting in her stride yet, she's perhaps more interesting now before she descends into panto villain territory yet you can see the seeds of what she became, in retrospect she's obviously manipulative and seems borderline hysterical when things don't go her way.Not a particularly good episode for Shelley, who seems to use Dani and especially Max as emotional punchbags.The scene of Rhys trying to get Dani to stay without telling her what was going on was nicely played.Few hints about Alf's brain tumour, which I'd already worked out by that point about six months before it was revealed, and a glimpse of Tara, another guest character I grew quite fond of.(And I'm pretty sure she wasn't wanted for murder as I've seen claimed in some places.)I clearly remember that last scene of Shelley listening to the recording.Shame a few niggling directorial flashes spoil the dramatic moments, like the echoes at the end and especially the mildly laughable crash zoom on Dylan finding out.Jesse's temper getting him into trouble, nice scene between him and Flynn, and Colleen actually seemed to have a function on the show back then, her little scene with Max was rather sweet.I would really like to see more episodes from that period and find out what exactly was going on but I doubt we'll get another extended run.

[jldraw]

I take back what I said about Angie not getting in her stride yet, she's perhaps more interesting now before she descends into panto villain territory yet you can see the seeds of what she became, in retrospect she's obviously manipulative and seems borderline hysterical when things don't go her way.

I'm racking my brain trying to remember wasn't there an episode towards the end of Angie's tenure, where her son Dylan mentions that his mom has some kind of mental disorder that causes her to act the way she did? Was the name of the mental disorder ever revealed? Obviously she had some severe control issues and exhibited high levels of narcissism but I'd be interested to learn if anything was ever revealed about her mental state.

As an aside they really need to reair the Angie episodes in sequential order someday. They are easily some of the best H&A episodes ever and the way Laurie was able to take this character that was given to her and show such poise in every one of her performances, she in my opinion really is a wonderful actress.

[alreetlike]

As an aside they really need to reair the Angie episodes in sequential order someday. They are easily some of the best H&A episodes ever and the way Laurie was able to take this character that was given to her and show such poise in every one of her performances, she in my opinion really is a wonderful actress.

Definitely, definitely, DEFINITELY. This must happen. I'd love to see them again in proper order.

[Ryan]

I have to say it's one of my favourite periods of the show as well (one which I have every second of on tape!!), and whilst I'm often critical of Coral Drouyn, up until probably the moment Angie's murder is solved, it's pretty great stuff, particularly the last 8 weeks of 2002 and it's my favourite season finale as well. I spent the whole winter hoping that Ailsa was somehow back alive, that for whatever reason something had happened that meant she went missing for two years*

I think as look back on episodes, perhaps made more golden by some of the tripe during 2006-2009, I actually realise I liked the Sutherland's. There's just two weak eras, the twins pre-2002, where their stories are usually, em, rubbish and the period where we go through the whole Kane saga again in 2003.

* As an aside, I'm sometimes slightly annoyed at how closed some of the stories actually become. I guess for something like this to happen you need an actor willing to come back in a set period of time, and that's not always possible. You hear on the news, crime programmes etc about people going missing for years, sometimes they're never found, but it feels if someone goes missing they're found within a week. How about if Ruby went missing at the end of the year and we never know what happens to her until Tania finds a corpse in the bush in 2012. Dodge is perhaps the best example of this. Presumed dead, but since Steven survived the fall, equally as likely that Dodge could have taken off and is biding his time. If someone is murdered and actually, despite all the best policework, it's never found out how actually did it.

[Red Ranger 1]

I'm racking my brain trying to remember wasn't there an episode towards the end of Angie's tenure, where her son Dylan mentions that his mom has some kind of mental disorder that causes her to act the way she did? Was the name of the mental disorder ever revealed? Obviously she had some severe control issues and exhibited high levels of narcissism but I'd be interested to learn if anything was ever revealed about her mental state.

Bearing in mind that my memory of this era is full of holes, I don't think they ever tried to make out Angie had something you could give a name to, even though she wasn't that well endowed in the sanity department.

Gosh, Kirsty looked young.And that was after she'd been in the show two years.Plus a glimpse of Nick and Jade.Watching these back to back, you suddenly notice that in the previous day's episode Rhys said his friends gave him drinks but here he says that he couldn't find his friends and ended up drinking alone.(Also has to be added that the whole back story completely messed up continuity:It was previously established that Shelley lost the baby when Kirsty and Jade were young children so if Dylan was conceived around that time he should be fourteen at most, not the same age as them.)I keep thinking that the episodes they choose for repeat don't really give a good impression of Rhys and Shelley, although Shelley was good in the scene where she tells Kirsty and Jade about Rhys' infidelity.The way Rhys looked left out when the others were comforting Kirsty was nicely played.I think at the time I was giving Angie the benefit of the doubt but watching it again she just drips insincerity.Glad we got to see the assault story played out, if that was all there was no wonder I didn't remember it, it seemed it was mostly about showing how loyal Hayley and Jesse were to each other.(There was a kind of non-romance going on there, I think.)I have absolutely no memory of Dani living with Irene but watching that I can vaguely remember her moving out, just not where she ended up.(There's a cruel irony about seeing Shelley going "You think I'm going to just up and leave my children in the middle of this?" and Jesse saying he's never going back to jail...)

Second episode...wasn't what was advertised, I think someone got the numbers confused since they printed a synopsis of 4543 then showed 4553.Which made more sense actually, I was looking at the other one going "Who's the bad girl in that?Kit?!"Instead...we get a Belle and Lucas episode!God, I loved them together, at the time I was begging for Belle to stay with Lucas and Drew to stay with Lisa, that would have been so much better.Probably the first example of Belle's finely tuned instinct for picking the wrong guy.It wasn't until the scene where they were introduced that I remembered Lucas and Lisa ended up together as well.Then she was abruptly killed off.The "bad girls" theme seems to be justified by the presence of Kelli, who'll apparently be hanging around a lot for the next few episodes.I did always think that for someone who claimed to be disfigured, it didn't stop her having an awful lot of sex...

[ebrett84]

I have to say it's one of my favourite periods of the show as well (one which I have every second of on tape!!), and whilst I'm often critical of Coral Drouyn, up until probably the moment Angie's murder is solved, it's pretty great stuff, particularly the last 8 weeks of 2002 and it's my favourite season finale as well. I spent the whole winter hoping that Ailsa was somehow back alive, that for whatever reason something had happened that meant she went missing for two years*

I think as look back on episodes, perhaps made more golden by some of the tripe during 2006-2009, I actually realise I liked the Sutherland's. There's just two weak eras, the twins pre-2002, where their stories are usually, em, rubbish and the period where we go through the whole Kane saga again in 2003.

* As an aside, I'm sometimes slightly annoyed at how closed some of the stories actually become. I guess for something like this to happen you need an actor willing to come back in a set period of time, and that's not always possible. You hear on the news, crime programmes etc about people going missing for years, sometimes they're never found, but it feels if someone goes missing they're found within a week. How about if Ruby went missing at the end of the year and we never know what happens to her until Tania finds a corpse in the bush in 2012. Dodge is perhaps the best example of this. Presumed dead, but since Steven survived the fall, equally as likely that Dodge could have taken off and is biding his time. If someone is murdered and actually, despite all the best policework, it's never found out how actually did it.

You mean you weren't a fan of Jade's one week bulimia? I always did actually like Kirsty right from the beginning for reasons I can't quite explain. I always liked the Sutherlands and when I first came online I was somewhat surprised to find out they were quite hated. Rhys in particular got a bad rap, imo. No he wasn't my favourite or anything, but at least he seemed like a normal dad and had some substance and consistency to his character, unlike similar middle aged "father figure" characters of more recent vintage like Brad and Tony. I used to be a KK fan, but watching some of the episodes again, I've pretty much changed my mind. I still loved the 2002 part of the storyline. Putting them together then was a great idea that was very well done (and very original) and no one will convince me otherwise. But bringing Kane back in 2003 was a mistake as they completely changed his character. It's strange, because the main criticism of the storyline back then was "they turned Kane into the good guy and his rape victim into a cow" and I think the real problem might have been the exact opposite. It worked best in 2002 when they were quite unapologetic about making Kane sympathetic and likeable. He had the mediation with Dani, and as a result of that and his relationship with Kirsty he became very apologetic, remorseful and almost ashamed of himself and his past actions and he seemed to understand and pretty much accept that people had a right to hate him. I'm not defending or condoning the rape, but they did a good job of convincing me that it was a "mistake" rather than a genuinely malicious and evil act. Not that it makes any difference to the victim, but still I was able to accept him as a reformed character. And the way the first part of the KK saga ended was great. He got a somewhat noble exit (making himself miserable but doing the right thing by Kirsty) and in the end he did get punished for what he did to Dani, because it meant that he couldn't be with the only person who had ever loved him and who he had ever loved. True, that's a punishment more out of Greek mythology than Law and Order but it worked for me. And then they brought him back. Suddenly his noble exit wasn't that noble anymore. Basically he left because it was the right thing for Kirsty, but came back and basically harassed her until she got back with him because at the end of the day the right thing by her didn't matter as long as he got what he wanted. Same as in 2008 when he told her to "move on" after he went to jail...and then ensures that she couldn't by asking her for money even when he knew (or certainly should have known) she was broke. Simply coming back made him look like a selfish, weak willed, indecisive prick. The even bigger problem was his 180 degree character change. Like I said earlier, I just don't understand the criticism that they turned him into a great guy. He was a total jerk. Bad tempered, demanding, controlling, selfish, aggressive, completely unsympathetic and remorseless about his past, and openly rude and contemptuous to Dani or anyone else who dared to say that it might be inappropriate to date his rape victim's sister. Rather than making him a good guy, it seemed like the writers were so paranoid about criticism about turning the rapist into a hero that they overcompensated and made him a total jerk. And in doing so they made his relationship with Kirsty completely unbelievable. Why would Kirsty want to be with such an unredeemable jerk, and that's before you get into the whole "he raped my sister" thing. At the time, I didn't really see this, probably because I was so attached to the 2002 part of the story, but re-watching them...wow. I can remember when they brought KK back, I was quite pissed that they split them up, but now I wonder why on earth she stuck with him for so long, and think putting her together with Miles was a godsend.

Wow that was long and a little off topic. Sorry about that.

[ebrett84]

I take back what I said about Angie not getting in her stride yet, she's perhaps more interesting now before she descends into panto villain territory yet you can see the seeds of what she became, in retrospect she's obviously manipulative and seems borderline hysterical when things don't go her way.

I'm racking my brain trying to remember wasn't there an episode towards the end of Angie's tenure, where her son Dylan mentions that his mom has some kind of mental disorder that causes her to act the way she did? Was the name of the mental disorder ever revealed? Obviously she had some severe control issues and exhibited high levels of narcissism but I'd be interested to learn if anything was ever revealed about her mental state.

I think a mental disorder was mentioned but I'm pretty sure it was never named. Probably because I can't think of any diagnosable mental state that would cause someone to turn into Angie. I think late 2002 was Angie's best time. As RR said, in 2003 she did have a tendency to turn into a bit of a panto villain, but 2002 was perfect. Basically everyone (except Rhys) knew she was an insincere cow, but hey there's no law against that, and she was treated as such. When it got to the point where she was responsible for everything bad in Summer Bay and where literally everything she did had an ulterior motive, it was a bit much.